Pay to Play?
Scott James
http://www.WebsitesForRockstars.comFollow @ihelpmusicians
So I was at a record store recently and a girl came up to me and asked me if I wanted to buy a ticket to see her band at the Knitting Factory (Hollywood) for $15. I politely declined and she continued asking people around the store. She was freaking out because they needed to sell 70 tickets or they were going to get “blacklisted” from the club.
Wow.
Depending on where you’re from, you may or may not encounter these pay-to-play scenarios. It’s pretty common here in L.A. at certain venues. The promoter basically requires a guarantee from the bands that they will make a certain amount of money. The promoter gives the band a number of tickets to sell and is usually held accountable to pay off most or all of the face value of the tickets that they’re required to sell. Personally I don’t have any moral objection to this arrangement. The club is in business to make money and the promoter has to pay the club and make a profit on top of that. That’s business. If you don’t like business then that’s fine – play in your garage and don’t ask anyone to buy anything from your band. The reality is that your band is a business too. The difference is that the club probably is a little more in touch with the fact that they are in business and a little better at it than most bands are. This is why you have bands who are willing to commit to selling 70(!) tickets to play at the Knitting Factory – even though they can’t sell 70 tickets.
So the question is…what is it worth to play the Knitting Factory, the Whisky or the Viper Room? That all depends. If it’s your life’s dream to play the Whisky then maybe selling 50 tickets is a good deal for you. If you’re committing to selling the tickets because you think someone might be there from Interscope Records and sign you to a recording contract then you are WRONG.
When you are ready to be signed then you won’t have to sell tickets. The promoter will already know who you are, or at the least, you will be able to prove to them that you draw a lot more than 50 people.
The problem is that a lot of bands put way too much importance on the “prestige” of certain venues. If you’re promoting the show as if the venue itself is the star of the show then you’ve got the wrong idea. Your band IS the show. The show is wherever your band chooses to play. You bring the party. You don’t pay to play because you don’t need to.
What I suggest is that you play the venues where you will draw the highest percent of capacity. If you draw 80 people, then find a venue in your hood that holds 50. Don’t play the Roxy where the room is going to look practically empty. Play to as full of a room as you can. The energy will be MUCH better. The perception will be MUCH better. Imagine these two scenarios:
a) You commit to selling 70 tickets to a venue on the Sunset Strip that holds 500. You’re having a hard time selling the tickets and you resort to begging so you don’t have to fork over the money out of your own pocket. You end up playing with 5 other bands and the show runs behind. You go on late and have to cut your set short. Your show is decent, but the room is at less than 20% of capacity. Your fans mostly enjoy the show, but not too many of them would want to do it again anytime soon after having paid $15 for the ticket, $15 to park, and $5.50 per Bud Light.
b) You play Joe Shmoe’s down the street. It costs $5 to get in, parking is free, bud lights are $3 and it’s close to a large chunk of your fan base. The owner of the place lets you put on your own show, so you recruit two other great bands that you vibe with really well and everyone gets to play their full set. The place is packed so the energy is electric. As a result, the performance is great. People get turned away at the door because there isn’t room for them. Everyone inside has a great time and tells all their friends – especially the ones who got there too late and got turned away. Everyone is looking forward to the next show. (oh yeah – and you actually got paid too!)
Same band, same number of fans. Which band do you think has the right idea? What is the difference in people’s perception of the band after each scenario?
This is HUGE. If you bring all of your fans to come see you at a venue that’s too big and too expensive for you to play at then you’re setting yourself up for failure. As soon as people perceive that you’re failing in any way then you’re basically screwed. Things will go downhill very fast. People will not spend time and money to come see your band unless they are CONVINCED that you will rock and that your shows are the place to be. Nobody said it would be easy. That’s why there are thousands and thousands and thousands of bands out there and you probably only spend time and money on a handful of them.
So when you’ve firmly established your rep in your neighborhood and everyone knows that they need to get to your shows early and that they are going to rock – then kick it up a notch at a slightly larger venue. Always be bigger than the venue. YOU are the show – not the venue. YOU bring people. YOU have the power. You don’t have to be over-the-top about this and you certainly shouldn’t be arrogant and unprofessional – just know it in your heart and negotiate and make your decisions with that frame in mind.
Pay to play? Not your band. Your band knows what’s important and knows how to leverage it’s power. Your band IS the show. Your band isn’t cool because of the venue you play at – the venue is cool because your band is playing there.
Hey there,
you are dam right!
Greezt from Germany
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Danke schön!
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Couldn’t be more right on the money. Set the limits of what is OK and not OK for YOU and YOUR band and then hold onto it. Yes, those venues are business and if bands refuse to operate that way, they will have to change.
My band WILL NOT Pay to play. We STRONGLY PREFER not to play when there is a cover charge. The venue can pay us out of sales and we are more than willing to work with them so that it’s a percentage of income and we share the risk with them. Yes, the venue is a business and you are corrected that the band is too, but this is not my means of supporting myself so I can be very flexible. Frankly I’d be happy to play a fun show for free except, “what’s the value of something you give away for free? Nothing.” Some club owners will take advantage and that’s just the way it goes. Stop playing there if they do.
NEVER PAY TO PLAY.
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You bring up some very very good points. I recently played at the whiskey a go-go. And the place is good to have on your resume and playing on that stage was cool. BUT… everything else was crap!!! Loading and unloading was a nightmare. You absolutely have to bring extra people with you to keep an eye on your stuff while its sitting there on the street with all those homeless and weirdos looking at it. Then if your lucky you can park in front just long enough to take your stuff out until security or parking patrol yells at you to get out of he way, then the only option you have is to park waaaaaay out in B.F.E. and pay 10 bucks,.. Then as i was walking back to the whiskey i was praying that my stuff would still there. Before the show security then told us we had to put all our stuff upstairs and if you know the whiskey those stairs on the side are friggin crazy!! and ive got a full heavy Bass rig. Which i refused to do because one missed step and im a crushed pancake man from my rig. So yeah Its fun once your up there playing but everything before and after is the worst. Its like your almost taking a chance of losing it all when you play there. I was wondering if anyone else has been through the same thing playing at that place?.
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You can always say you played a place. They never really check it out. You don’t have to buy into the pay to play garbage and 99 percent of the time most of you will never, ever get anywhere without touring of becoming such good musicians that you can work as a sideman. My band in Austin never plays LA, we don’t even play Austin. We go to Europe and tour and we often break even and this has led to us being interview by several labels,. But, labels are dead anyway so times are changing.,
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Yea Labels are history – as soon as that sinks in – these clubs wont have ‘THAT’ carrot to dangle around – suddenly playing Pay to Play Places wont be as important – just a propped up over hyped house of cards that is ready to implode on itself
Theres no such thing as a ‘resume’ – for musicians who continue using that in their thought process – FYI
Spend your time and money into creating songs – recording – an original sound
MP3s are the new currency – cheap ill admit – if their was an exchange rate – mp3′s would be below pesos
but – thats what would get people to your show – hearing something they like – Radio play – cant have radio play without a freaking song
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I DON”T AGREE,PAY TO PLAY HELPS BANDS TO PUSH THEMSELFS.YOU MAY THINK YOU CAN SAY YOU PLAYED SOMEWHERE AND YOU DID”NT,BUT IT CAN BACK FIRE ON YOU.I HAVE BOOK GROUPS AT NO CHARGE AND GUESS WHAT,NONE OF THEIR PEOPLE SHOWED UP.IT WAS LOCAL NEAR THEIR HOOD.GUESS WHO THEY TRIED TO BLAME,YOU ALREADY KNOW.ARTIST TODAY DO NOT HUSTLE THEY SIT BACK THINKING FAME WELL DROP IN THEIR LAP.IF YOU ARE PROMOTING YOURSELF AND YOUR GOOD YOU SHOULD HAVE NO PROBLEM GETTING RID OF 15 TICKETS.ONE THING I KNOW WHEN YOU DO THINGS FOR FREE,PEOPLE DO NOT RESPECT THE GAME.
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I’ve never paid to play. I just don’t understand that concept. You are there to entertain the clubs crowd. Anybody that follows your band to the show is just gravy for the club.
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I totally agree. No one said life or the music business is fair. I have been in the business for over 30 years. If you disagree with the pay to play, think just for a second about how many bands and musicians are out there. Millions! The club owners have their pick of talent. Now, once you have the exposure and you are a hot commodity, then and only then do the rules change.
I can’t say that I am a “fan” of pay to play. But, guys and gals, it is what it is. I promise you that the music will always be fulfilling. But the business will always be a grind. Put together a band that the public can’t live without, have a hit record or some kind of gimmic that sets you apart from the rest. Then you won’t have to worry about any issues like pay to play. Until then, you might want to practice this principal that I learned a long time ago; “Don;t be a star before you are”. Life has to be lived on life’s terms, not yours. Get with the program or get out. Denial only leads to anger and more frustration.
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Pay to play and the bands that believe in doing so drives prices down and takes money out of my pocket. That makes me VERY GROUCHY! Any band that does not insist on a set minimum for the night, and NOT the door % are traitors to their profession, scabs of the worst kind! in my book. I am EXTREMELY militant about this. I have gotten very nasty with a few clubowners who have tried to screw me. I’m a nice guy, but mess with my $$ & you’re steppin’ on a rattlesnake! The clubowner has to pay his liquore distributer,waitstaff,electricity,water,repairs,etc. Why should the band be any different. What if he told his liquor distributor “Hey, I’ll pay you a % of the liquor sales. Guess what would happen? Those kegs would be back on the truck faster than you could wink an eye. I lug too much equipment (Pedal steel, guitar,2 amps,effects,etc) Not to get paid for it. @#$#^%^&* Pay to play!!
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A great read.
I’m originally from Boston and “pay to play” is unheard of there. Unheard of. Since being in CA I’ve succumb to this method on a couple occasions and agree that’s it’s just not worth it. I have to admit that I was a little naive about the whole thing but this article touches on the venue not being the draw, but the band. We certainly fell into that for 2 different venues and in the end it was for naught. A big room with your normal 30-50 people makes you look so amateur. I agree playing the smaller venue and having a better show because the vibe is more personal and it is at least perceived to be more successful solely based on smaller room, same amount of people.
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This is so well put. About all you will accomplish by playing those is clubs is to make the Armenian Mafia rich-as that’s who runs most of the Sunset Strip clubs these days. I would much rather pack a little dive bar someplace, get a few free beers, a little money and an appreciative audience and club owner any day. The only way to put a stop to this is for us as musicians to refuse to buy into the “the industry big wigs will see you there” crap that gets pushed by our so called “music industry”. When I lived and played in Rockford this sort of thing was unheard of. I never worked for less than $112 per night unless it was a benefit. It is really a pity what has happened to the music scene in LA, it certainly was not like this in the 70s when I was growing up.
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All this means is that the best PROMOTER gets to play. That is why live and recorded music for the most part sucks big time. The music business wants to blame file sharing for all their woes but the truth is that the best promoters can take it to the point that a major label signs them and gets their music played world wide. The public gets to hear said music, finds out that it really is not for them, and does not buy because the musicians and their team were way better at promotion than music. If you think I am wrong why did Susan Boyle sell all those CD’s? Why did Michael Jackson sell so well after his death? Why did Arcade Fire displace M & M from number 1 on the Billboard charts? The answer is that they actually gave people something they really wanted to hear.
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This should be mandatory reading for every young musician or starry eyed dreamer.
Pay to Play is THE way of doing business in NJ. The Asbury Music Scene, the Live Nation venues like The Stone Pony and The Starland Ballroom are all pay to play venues.
There is an inherent problem with pay to play. It never credits the artist with past success and in fact if the artist is good at “pay to play” and don’t complain, they will always be such because the ticket money split so favors the promoter that they would be a fool to relinquish it if the artist isn’t bitching despite consistently overselling minimums.
Artists love to scream “boycott pay to play venues!!!!!” but it will never work. All the promoter has to do is book Magnetic Death Snot one night and tell some young band that if they do the show, they will be “included in all promotion” and the management and support team of Magnetic Death Snot will be in the house that night and will check out their set.
At that point the young bands self survival kicks in and helllllooooooooooo opening act, problem solved for the promoter.
Pay to play is a bane in our existence but one we have to deal with. I believe you have the best ideas to make that situation work for each individual band.
You are correct. We bring the party….the party is where ever we are.
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